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GLOCK gen. 5
#1
Pozdravljeni, danes je "izšel" novi Glock generacije 5, v začetni ponudbi sta modela 17 in 19 v kalibru 9x19, poznana je tudi že cena pištol.


https://www.all4shooters.com/de/mobile/S...eration-5/
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#2
Nekaj hitro so zamenjali generacijo 4 z 5.  :exclaim:
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#3
https://www.strelec.si/forum/showthread.php?tid=19546
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#4
(29-08-2017, 17:10)goldi Napisal: Nekaj hitro so zamenjali generacijo 4 z 5.  Exclaim

Na plastiki je kr gužva ratala.
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#5
760 euriča za glocka wtf.
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#6
(29-08-2017, 17:10)goldi Napisal: Nekaj hitro so zamenjali generacijo 4 z 5.  Exclaim

Zamenjal so jo ker so imeli vse te spremembe pripravljene za izgubljen razpis ameriške vojske predvsem pa razpis FBI , kaj potem preostane drugega kot lansirat novo generacijo ,če jih moraš tako ali tako za FBI štancat.
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#7
Ja je FBI od leta 1986 od Miami shootout-a "izumljal" toplo vodo - novi kalibri : 10AUTO,40 S&W in nazadnje pristane na tistem kar je dovolj dobr za večino - 9 Luger in Glock ! Mrgreen
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#8
Amere je dolgo gonil kretenizem na temo 'stopping power'  

Citat:August 4, 2016 

The Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) recently announced that they have picked the Glock as their new service handgun.  The official announcement was posted on FedBizOpps .
The $85 million dollar contract was awarded after nine months of consideration and testing. 

As the principal investigative arm of the United States Department of Justice, FBI personnel are involved in high threat assignments where deadly force may be used.  The FBI has a need to acquire the following semi-automatic pistols for use by armed personnel during the course of training and operations:


Class I Compact Pistol;
Class II Full Size Pistol;
Class I Inert Training Pistol (a.k.a. Red Handle);
Class I Man Marker Training Pistol (a.k.a. SIMUNITION);
Class I & Class II Pistol Replacement Parts

The reliability of a pistol followed by the accuracy potential of a pistol is paramount to the survival of armed FBI personnel and others in the face of a violent confrontation. FBI firearms are stored, carried, and fired around the world and must be capable of withstanding extreme environmental conditions along with the
rigors of FBI training and operations.”




FBI 9MM Justification

FBI Training Division: FBI Academy, Quantico, VA
Executive Summary of Justification for Law Enforcement Partners
· Caliber debates have existed in law enforcement for decades
· Most of what is “common knowledge” with ammunition and its effects on the human target are rooted in myth and folklore
· Projectiles are what ultimately wound our adversaries and the projectile needs to be the basis for the discussion on what “caliber” is best
· In all the major law enforcement calibers there exist projectiles which have a high likelihood of failing LEO’s in a shooting incident and there are projectiles which have a high ting incident likelihood of succeeding for LEOs in a shooting incident
· Handgun stopping power is simply a myth
· The single most important factor in effectively wounding a human target is to have penetration to a scientifically valid depth (FBI uses 12” – 18”)
· LEOs miss between 70 – 80 percent of the shots fired during a shooting incident
· Contemporary projectiles (since 2007) have dramatically increased the terminal effectiveness of many premium line law enforcement projectiles (emphasis on the 9mm Luger offerings)
· 9mm Luger now offers select projectiles which are, under identical testing conditions, I outperforming most of the premium line .40 S&W and .45 Auto projectiles tested by the FBI
· 9mm Luger offers higher magazine capacities, less recoil, lower cost (both in ammunition and wear on the weapons) and higher functional reliability rates (in FBI weapons)
· The majority of FBI shooters are both FASTER in shot strings fired and more ACCURATE with shooting a 9mm Luger vs shooting a .40 S&W (similar sized weapons)
· There is little to no noticeable difference in the wound tracks between premium line law Auto enforcement projectiles from 9mm Luger through the .45 Auto
· Given contemporary bullet construction, LEO’s can field (with proper bullet selection) 9mm Lugers with all of the terminal performance potential of any other law enforcement pistol caliber with none of the disadvantages present with the “larger” calibers
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#9
(29-08-2017, 22:15)mr.T Napisal: Amere je dolgo gonil kretenizem na temo 'stopping power'  

Citat:August 4, 2016 

The Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) recently announced that they have picked the Glock as their new service handgun.  The official announcement was posted on FedBizOpps .
The $85 million dollar contract was awarded after nine months of consideration and testing. 

As the principal investigative arm of the United States Department of Justice, FBI personnel are involved in high threat assignments where deadly force may be used.  The FBI has a need to acquire the following semi-automatic pistols for use by armed personnel during the course of training and operations:


Class I Compact Pistol;
Class II Full Size Pistol;
Class I Inert Training Pistol (a.k.a. Red Handle);
Class I Man Marker Training Pistol (a.k.a. SIMUNITION);
Class I & Class II Pistol Replacement Parts

The reliability of a pistol followed by the accuracy potential of a pistol is paramount to the survival of armed FBI personnel and others in the face of a violent confrontation. FBI firearms are stored, carried, and fired around the world and must be capable of withstanding extreme environmental conditions along with the
rigors of FBI training and operations.”




FBI 9MM Justification

FBI Training Division: FBI Academy, Quantico, VA
Executive Summary of Justification for Law Enforcement Partners
· Caliber debates have existed in law enforcement for decades
· Most of what is “common knowledge” with ammunition and its effects on the human target are rooted in myth and folklore
· Projectiles are what ultimately wound our adversaries and the projectile needs to be the basis for the discussion on what “caliber” is best
· In all the major law enforcement calibers there exist projectiles which have a high likelihood of failing LEO’s in a shooting incident and there are projectiles which have a high ting incident likelihood of succeeding for LEOs in a shooting incident
· Handgun stopping power is simply a myth
· The single most important factor in effectively wounding a human target is to have penetration to a scientifically valid depth (FBI uses 12” – 18”)
· LEOs miss between 70 – 80 percent of the shots fired during a shooting incident
· Contemporary projectiles (since 2007) have dramatically increased the terminal effectiveness of many premium line law enforcement projectiles (emphasis on the 9mm Luger offerings)
· 9mm Luger now offers select projectiles which are, under identical testing conditions, I outperforming most of the premium line .40 S&W and .45 Auto projectiles tested by the FBI
· 9mm Luger offers higher magazine capacities, less recoil, lower cost (both in ammunition and wear on the weapons) and higher functional reliability rates (in FBI weapons)
· The majority of FBI shooters are both FASTER in shot strings fired and more ACCURATE with shooting a 9mm Luger vs shooting a .40 S&W (similar sized weapons)
· There is little to no noticeable difference in the wound tracks between premium line law Auto enforcement projectiles from 9mm Luger through the .45 Auto
· Given contemporary bullet construction, LEO’s can field (with proper bullet selection) 9mm Lugers with all of the terminal performance potential of any other law enforcement pistol caliber with none of the disadvantages present with the “larger” calibers

Saj imajo 45 ACP...ne vem kaj bi še radi Doh
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#10
(29-08-2017, 22:19)jabolko Napisal: Saj imajo 45 ACP...ne vem kaj bi še radi Doh

zadel tarčo pa imel veliko šusov v magazinu Papers 

Za razliko od evropskih policij nimajo dileme z hollow point strelivom tako da so učinki čisto zadostni
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#11
"shot placement is king and penetration is queen" - magičnih patronov pa ni razen v holywood-u Mrgreen
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#12
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#13
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#14
Zanimiva je izbira orožja dveh FBI agentov,ki sta bila vpletena v "Miami shootout"leta 1986 in,ki je pomenil preobrat v strategiji FBI-ja glede kalibrov službenega orožja,takitke... itd : prvi,ki je v spopadu uporabljal pištolo 9mm luger z hi cap nabojnikom in ki je bil priča "neučinkovitosti" 9mm 115gr JHP krogle - je vzel SIG -a 220 kalibra 45acp in drugi,ki je v spopadu imel revolver in ugotovil,da ga je v stresu izredno težko polniti - je vzel pištolo 9mm luger z hi cap nabojnikom. Oba sta se odločila na podlagi izredno stresne življenske izkušnje,ko sta se borila za preživetje  in ju verjetno razni  laboratorijski testi v gelu in nasveti foteljskih streljačev niso zanimali. Nod
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#15
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1986_FBI_Miami_shootout

Samo Plata je na koncu ustrelil Mireles s svojim reveloverjem 686 .357 z naboji 38.+P. Toliko o stopping power.
lp Melly
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#16
Ja res je - o "stoping power" učinku nabojev pa so neskončne dabate na forumih in vsak ima svoje mnenje Mrgreen
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#17
Če že bluzimo o stoping powerju:

Govori o Manurhinu MR73:
"As in combat, you’ll also find that this was the gun used during the hijack of Air France plane in 1994. Flight 8969 was hijacked by 4 members of Armed Islamic Group whom intended to blow up the plane over the Eiffel Tower in Paris. GIGN, a special operation group of French Armed Forces, stormed the plane when it reached Marseille, France. Captain Thierry P, armed with a 5.25-in Manurhin MR 73, killed 2 terrorists and wounded another before shot 7 times by the 4th terrorist. The third and fourth terrorists were killed by Captain Thierry’s partner, who used an HK MP5. Captain Thierry P survived. This is considered as one of the most successful anti-terrorist operations in history, according to Thomas Sancton of the Time magazine.

Remember, this was back in 1994. So many modern semi-automatic pistols were already made/invented during that time: Glock, HK, Sig Sauer, 1911, you name it. However, Captain Thierry P didn’t choose any of them. Indeed, he chose the Manurhin MR 73."
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#18
(30-08-2017, 10:28)ales1a Napisal: Če že bluzimo o stoping powerju:

Koliko od vas je že streljalo na živo z pištolo ali revolverjem?
Jaz sem nazadnje prašiča. 357, krogla SP 6"cev. Razdalja 80m (prašič ranjen v zadno nogo). Res je padel takoj ker sem prestrelil srce. Včasih pa mi je žal, da nisem nabavil 454 Casul. Z devetko in SP kroglo mi pa na misel ne pride tako divjad streljat. Srnjak na par metrov zadet kot je treba ni zadetka niti nakazal. Bežal naprej dokler ga ni pes ustavil.
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#19
(30-08-2017, 10:59)alojz1 Napisal:
(30-08-2017, 10:28)ales1a Napisal: Če že bluzimo o stoping powerju:

Koliko od vas je že streljalo na živo z pištolo ali revolverjem?
Jaz sem nazadnje prašiča. 357, krogla SP 6"cev. Razdalja 80m (prašič ranjen v zadno nogo). Res je padel takoj ker sem prestrelil srce. Včasih pa mi je žal, da nisem nabavil 454 Casul. Z devetko in SP kroglo mi pa na misel ne pride tako divjad streljat. Srnjak na par metrov zadet kot je treba ni zadetka niti nakazal. Bežal naprej dokler ga ni pes ustavil.

Evo Lojz jaz tudi...Srnjak, moral po spletu okoliščin, tako je naneslo pa nebi o tem, izkušnja pa več kot dobrodošla.
Pištola glock 17 razdalja okoli 5 metrov strel čisti, desetka... krogla los 145 RN naboj polnjen na 145 ipsc faktor to je močna polnitev, bolj za avtomate...krogla dala prestrel, poškodbe kot z puško neke normalne moči recimo 7x57R ...
Padel na mestu dobesedno kot v filmu ni naredil koraka samo padel in se počasi umiril...u bistvu so te krogle pobakrene zelo mehke in se ob udarcu koj preoblikujejo v veliko večjo gobo kot puškovne, kar se vidi po strelišču ko pobereš ostanek z lepim uzorcem, ki je tudi do trikrat večji kot kaliber krogle, pobakritev je zato da ne kadi in svinja drgač po latnostih isto ali bolje kot prava HP...ne podcenjevat naboja 9 luger ali omenjene krogle zelo zelo neugodna...zlasti težja Doh
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#20
O učinkih krogle na divjad ne morem komentirat,ker nisem lovec in z tem nimam izkušenj.

Vsaj približek streljanja "na živo" pa je usposabljanje z simunition strelivom ( krogla z barvo),kjer dejansko streljaš na "živo tarčo" seveda ustrezno zaščiteno. In lahko povem iz lastnih izkušenj,da je to vse kaj drugega kot streljanje na papirnate tarče. Od adrenalina,tunelskega pogleda,krčevitega oprijema pištole,zgrešenih strelov na premikajočo "tarčo" ..... pa še vse to verjetno ni primeljivo s tem,ko bi streljal za preživetje.O tem lahko razlagajo samo tisti,ki so to doživeli in preživeli - vse ostalo je samo teorija.
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